In the Catholic
Church today, and this doesn't make news much, but there's more and more small
communities happening, where they meet for Mass on Sunday or something, but in
small groups. They'll have women
presiding, they'll have married Priests presiding, they'll have Gay people
presiding, but they're doing it together in a circle. It's not about idolizing one ordained person
up at the altar.
Rob Kall:
So, you just said that, in the Catholic church, people are getting
together in small communities, getting together in a circle, sometimes led by
women. Is this happening in Catholic
Churches, or is it happening in peoples' homes?
Matthew Fox:
It's happening in homes, it's happening in rented halls, it's happening
in Protestant churches; some of these groups are, in effect, renting the space,
Protestant churches or even Jewish synagogues to do this. That's what's interesting, people are using
their imaginations, and they're realizing that they're not being fed in the
Catholic system anymore. So many people
have told me over the last few years, especially these days, that they can't go
to Mass anymore, because what is being preached and taught there is so
Patriarchal, it's so sexist, it's so top down, that their souls are not being
fed. And so they realize they have to
take what I call "Take the beauty from the burning building, take what's of
worth, the treasure from the burning building, and putting in different forms
in different gatherings," and this is happening.
And then of course
there's Mens Movement. It's very
important that men deal with their spiritual evolution as women have been doing
for decades. I think this is essential
too, that we have a detoxed sense of masculinity, a cleaned up
masculinity. I wrote about this a couple
of years ago in my book called The Hidden Spirituality of Men. But men are yearning, really, to get in
deeper touch with healthy spirituality.
And again, the Patriarchal model that you're getting, such as from these
last two Popes, is not adequate, because neither is the "football model," or
the "I win, you lose" model. It's
reptilian brain stuff, and men are realizing more and more that they can do
better than that.
Rob Kall:
This is the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, WNJC 1360 AM, reaching metro
Philly and South Jersey, sponsored by Opednews.com where you get Liberal news and opinion. I'm speaking with Matthew Fox. He's the author of The Popes War, a
former Catholic Priest, and we've been starting off talking about Pope
Ratzinger and his resignation, but we've moved on and we've talked about
perhaps the future of the Catholic religion for Catholics who no longer
tolerate the top down, hierarchical, Patriarchal way that the Catholic church
is stuck.
Now, Matthew, you
just talked about how people are leaving because the church is top down and so
Patriarchal. I've come to believe for
many years that Conservatism, the Right wing, it is anti-feminine. Not just anti-women as we learned in the last
Presidential election, but it opposes the whole idea of the feminine
archetype. Have thoughts on that?
Matthew Fox:
Absolutely. As I say, what does
the Taliban, the Vatican, and Pat Robertson [each word said stressing the last
syllable as "ahn"] all have in common?
It's this rabid fear of the feminine.
And of course, the idea of the Divine Feminine is absolutely sends them
out the window. So this is a great
insight to realize to realize that this is what the real battle is about. It's this balance of Yin and Yang, of the
masculine and the feminine, of the Divine Feminine and the Sacred
Masculine.
This is really
where a lot of the struggle is being played out, and this is why you'll have
the Vatican beating up on women. Now
they're coming after the sisters! I
mean, how you can come after Catholic Sisters (laughs), who've devoted their
whole life to working the front line, to the poor, and educating, and working
in inner cities, and all the rest; it's hard to fathom, especially when this
very church has been covering up priestly pedophilia for decades. But you realize, just what you're talking
about, that the drive to control women is behind so much of
Fundamentalism.
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