But any sort of business decision can be like this, right? Fear of missing out on an opportunity, and so waiting waiting waiting until it's it's too late. A decision that might have been good at one point, it's now too late to do. And or holding on to something, and keep trying even though it's clear that, that it's a failure, it's a losing venture. And other secure-riskics that people deal with, like sunk cost fallacy, you know I've already spent a hundred thousand dollars in this business, I can't stop now. Even though they're going to be losing much more money.
Rob Kall: Okay, now let's take a step back and talk about the differences between psychopaths and sociopaths, and anti social personality. Now, how many books have you read on this subject?
M.E. Thomas: I've read a few.
Rob Kall: *chuckles* A few. That, now that's, now, one of the things you do in your book is you talk about the kind of strategies you, use to deal with people. And you describe yourself as very manipulative person who figures people out, listens to them, gets inside of their head, and then you use that to control them, manipulate them, to make, so that you feel like you have won. That you have control over them, things like that. Have I gotten that right?
M.E. Thomas: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because imagine a world in which you don't, you don't feel empathy right? You don't feel empathy so you don't relate with people on an emotional level. Not just that, but the emotions that you do have, you do have them but they're largely primitive. Or to the extent that you're having other emotions. They're not really meaningful to you because they, they don't really seem to have a context. You feel them, but it doesn't feel like they add to the narrative that is your life or sense of self. You don't even have a very strong sense of self.
So you're this person, and yet you have to interact in society, right? You, you have parents, everybody has parents, everybody has teachers and friends, everybody has co workers, everybody interacts with other people. So if you're a small child, who doesn't feel these sorts of things, how are you going to interact with people? You look at people and you might just assume everyone's the same as I am, right? To the extent that they're crying, you know somebody cries and then the parent comes and comforts them. That may just seem like manipulation to you. You know, you wouldn't call it manipulation, but that's what's happening, somebody cries and they get a particular result, right?
If you don't really have authentic sort of meaning to your own emotions, then that's the way the world looks like to you. So when you develop means of interacting with people, those are your ways of interacting with people. That's how you have actually been socialized. Because you're unable to see these other things, right? You can imagine examples of a blind person, a blind person is going to be socialized in different ways, a deaf person is going to be socialized in different ways, because there are just certain social cues that they're not going to ever be able to pick up on. So their view of the world is going to be distorted, or at least different from somebody who's sighted, from somebody who can hear.
So the fact that these things are true about me, it's not as if when I was a child I set out to, you know, clamp down my emotions. And I thought, you know, the best way to deal with people is to manipulate them. I didn't even have these words in my vocabulary, it hasn't been until the past few years when I've acknowledged these things of being truthful about me. You know, I thought I was living my life as a normal, functioning, even pro social, for the most part human being. But after I had these bad experiences, losing jobs, relationships, and tried to be really honest with myself I was able to see, no for the most part I see people as objects that I can use.
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