Rob: I can clearly see that. I did an interview recently with a neuroscientist who wrote a book about discovering by looking at his brain maps that his brains maps looked just like those of psychopaths. And he went on to learn about all the 50 plus different genetic markers that can contribute to a person being a psychopath. I would assume that there are similar markers that are factors associated with narcissism as well.
DS: Yes, I'm sure.
Rob: But you talk about this idea of that the traumatizing narcissist basically doesn't recognize that the person that they're in the relationship with, as a person. And you say--
DS: Right.
Rob: The trauma of Inaudible neurecognition could lead one to desperately lead to connection through subjugation, and self-objectification. Or unrecognition could lead one to hyper idealize oneself and hold others in contempt. Now this is where I'm leading is, the victims of traumatic narcissists can either turn into traumatic narcissists or they can become victims who basically develop, go into relationships with traumatic narcissists that they find where they become subjugated and dominated. Is that correct?
DS: Right. Yes that's exactly my point. That while there may be other fates that are possible for people who have been raised and primarily developmentally exposed to traumatizing narcissism, traumatic narcissism, there may be other fates. But two that are very common are either, as you say, to replicate and internalize the traumatic narcissism and then go ahead and bring that out in yourself in a way where you become that to others, you subjugate others. And I've seen this often enough, or I've heard about often enough, many of the people I see in my psychotherapy practice will describe a couple of generations of narcissistic caregivers. Parents and grandparents. And in some cases the parents might be much better than the grandparent was, less traumatizing, or as traumatizing or more traumatizing. By the time somebody comes to talk to a therapist, it's usually because they've been pretty traumatized and they can't figure it out. It's not so much these narcissists that come to therapy. They think they're fine. They like how, they like who they are, they like how they are, that don't see a problem. And maybe they'll come because you know, they'll come for one reason or another but typically not because they need to change and grow, they'll come because they want to, the therapist to validate them and tell them they're right. The victim of the narcissist is the one who shows up. So then, right. Developmentally being exposed to that kind of traumatic narcissism you could, you can internalize it and replicate it, or you could become that person who is likely to get themselves into relationships in which they end up being subjugated and subjugating themselves. That's the basic concept there.
Rob: Now, this, you describe how if a person gets into therapy. First of all, you basically said that a traumatizing narcissist isn't going to respond to therapy.
DS: Typically not. Right.
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