Kall: what strikes me is they failed to do this throughout the entire Iraq war and the Afghan war. And if they had done this job right and if they had shown what was really going on, now that I'm seeing it with Al Jazeera - I don't think the American people would have stood for. This is why, in most American cities now we are seeing these protests, all over the place and by the way. I want to mention there’s a website - live Station.com. I have nothing to do with it--except I'm using it. You download some really quick, easy software and watch Al Jazeera online with audio free. This is what people need to be doing - they need to see what's going on, but you know, you've got Alan Dershowitz and all the defenders of Israel saying, and it’s their standard line and Obama said too – “if someone's dropping bombs near my house that they could endanger my children I have the right to do something about it. That's the standard line
Hedges: well that's true, but the question is, what do you do? And I would argue that what you do is to create a cease-fire, which we had from July till it was broken by the Israelis in November and the people in Israel who were being hit by rockets were very happy when they're was a cease-fire because they weren’t being hit by rockets. I fully agree with that, but unfortunately, the cliché is used to justify this air assault and sea. I mean, they've been using naval vessels to ravage the civilian population in Gaza. So the question is legitimate. The problem is they don't go on from there, it becomes a kind of slogan used to justify very counterproductive acts of violence
Kall: it seems to me that if the Israelis were smart, during that time, when they had the cease-fire while they also had the blockade, what they could have done was the kind of stuff that Scott Mortensen talks about in his book - 3 Cups of Tea. He talks about giving all kinds of extra support to the West Bank and shown the way things could be if they were starting to get along, and they failed to do that...
Hedges: the problem is they've been using Lockwood in Abbas like a doormat, because settlement expansion has been going full pace. They've not done that - they have not in any way loosened the noose around the necks of the Palestinians in the West Bank. And this has just destroyed the credibility of Abbas - you know, when people voted for Hamas, it wasn't so much that people voted for Hamas. It's just that they realized how bankrupt five Fatah had become, and they had become bankrupt and corrupt - when I was in Gaza, these Fatah officials had built themselves little villas by the sea - were driving Mercedes that they had imported tax-free - I mean, it was a Mafia as much the same as Karzai in Afghanistan so. I think as you see in Afghanistan as a kind of tacit support for the Taliban - I think the root of that is revolution - at the Karzai thugs who run the place, and the same was true with Fatah, so that's sort of the tragedy of the Palestinians - it's not that there are great alternatives out there. I think that Hamas would have died on their own accord, because they were so brutal, and so vicious, once they took power
Kall: well, it seems to me from the history that you’ve described that it's very likely that the unintended consequence of what's going on today will be probably the end of Hamas and the beginning of something worse
Hedges: well, you know, every time they hit Hamas, and I've known the Hamas leaders from the beginning all the way back to Rantisi and others, you get are more virulent and radical
Kall: now what about the bloggers - how do you feel that the - do you think the Internet is having any effect on what's happening around the world
Hedges: I think the Internet has an effect on people who care about finding out what's happening, but I think we have to be clear that we are in a minority. I think most people don't care. I use the Internet, and I'm very thankful that it's there because I can watch videos from Al Jazeera. And I can see what's happening on the ground. I can read reports that emanate out of Gaza, either from Europeans or from Palestinians directly, but I have to search it out on the Internet. And I think we do have to be, we can't be Pollyanna-ish about this or utopian. I think we have to be clear that most Americans not doing that, they have no interest in doing that
Kall: okay and our last question and I really appreciate the time you've been giving me here. Iran - it looks like the Neocons and those on the right in Israel are trying to set up the narrative here. The story that Iran is a big part of this they've got their fingerprints on the rockets they've been firing – the katoushas - Iran is talking about sending over a boat to help. Do you think that there is an increased risk of confrontation between Iran Now?
Hedges: well, the Neocons will seize on anything they can to further a confrontation with Iran. It's interesting that when Hamas was formed. They appealed to Iran for help and Iran rebuffed them - now are they helping Iran now. I would say probably they are the same way that helping Hezbollah - but to somehow turn to Iran as the root of this problem was the root of the militancy or the root of the violence is mistaken. The root of all of this is Israeli miscalculation, and abuse of the Palestinians
Kall: now, if you come back to the beginning of our conversation. He talked about how AIPAC really represents Kadima and the far right in Israel. Who are those people - who are these far right?
Hedges: they are messianic Jews who believe that they
Kall: messianic like Christian Jews?
Hedges: well, that's why they love the Christian right. They believe that they have a moral right to dominate the Middle East
Kall: well you’re not talking about Christians Jews, you’re talking about
Hedges: I'm using the word messianic with a small m
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