Rob Kall Facilitates a Conversation Between Paul Craig Roberts and Noam Chomsky

Broadcast 9/23/2014 at 10:40 PM EDT (2771 Listens, 1263 Downloads, 4994 Itunes)
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Paul Craig Roberts and Noam Chomsky

I've brought together Paul Craig Roberts and Noam Chomsky with the hopes that they'll produce some riffs, as in blues or jazz jamming. I start by listing some of the topics I'd like to hear them talk about, then begin with a quote from each of them.

Rough Interview Notes:

Nationalism, Imperialism, Fascism, Corporatism, Capitalism, Industrialization, neoliberals

US economy

Top down and Bottom up, patriarchy, power, wealth inequality, psychopathy, sociopathy and narcissism,

Bottom-up-- decentralization, localization, beyond arab spring, revolution

Congress and the Supreme court Citizens United,

Global Warming

And, because it is hard to ignore Scottand, ISIL and Ukraine and Russia.

Paul Craig Roberts recently wrote "eventually the large US trade deficits produced by offshoring the production of goods and services sold into US markets and the collapse of the middle class and tax base caused by jobs offshoring will destroy the value of the US dollar.

When that day arrives, US living standards, already endangered, will plummet. American power will have been destroyed by corporate greed and the Fed's policy of sacrificing the US economy in order to save four or five mega-banks, whose former executives control the Fed, the US Treasury, and the federal financial regulatory agencies."

Noam wrote, in a forward to the book, Realizing Hope: Life Beyond Capitalism, "It is surely necessary to resist oppression and pursue liberation -- and also to advance towards realizing hope by gaining clarity about our objectives and constructing paths to attain them.

What is the future of the US economy and capitalism?

Rob: Noam?

We're very far a capitalist economy-- it's a state capitalist economy"

The future depends on how the public will respond to the circumstances" can be influenced, modified or even radically changed.

Rob: Paul?

Private businesses have taken control of government. Greed has taken over to such an extent that it has led to undermining the economy for which they depend.

Rob: Noam, do you have a response to Paul?

Responsibilities of CEOs have been magnified. Used to be CEO had a stake in the future and survival of a corporation. That's much less true today.

Refers to global warming march in NYC

Rob: What role will climate change play in the future of economics and world power balances?

Noam: We're already at a level of species extinction that happened 65 million years ago when an asteroid hit the earth.

Rob: It seems that some people and companies want this. How will the economics and power balances change?

Companies are stuck in short term profit mode

Paul: economic theory supports notions-- on production function-- -assumption that manmade capital is a perfect substitute for nature's capital.

Bob Sola on the program--

Rob: it seems that both of you agree that it is the nature of the corporation that is the problem.

Robert: total lack of ability for foresight, to lay out and plan scenarios.

Noam: We have to remember what corporations are and can do is not up to them" they are state created and supported fictions created by state action. Rights and options available to them have changed dramatically through the years. If we go back, corporations didn't have the rights they have today.

Free trade agreements grant corporations rights far beyond rights persons have.

People have very little influence on government policy-- bottom 70% of incomes are essentially disenfranchised-- when you get to the top- a fraction of 1% they are making policy.

Paul: What is Professor CHomsky's take on the risk that the United States is taking with it's European Vassal States by pushing them into conflict with Russia that is not in the interest of Europe. Seems to me that this is a risky thing for Washington-- that it could lose control of its vassals. For example, what if Russia said it would sell gas to Europeans? What's Chomsky think of what looks like reckless risk taking with Russia and China?

Chomsky: It's extremely reckless and it is driving Russia into a relationship with China" basically based on energy.. some see it is a potential China based NATO style org-- includes China, India, Pakistan, Iran, and Asian states-- it's substantial-- it may also be a currency alternative. This is very risky and could lead to war.

Helmut Kohl of Germany

Bringing Ukraine into NATO" is laying the basis for what could become a nuclear war. playing such risky game is, I don't know how to describe it-- suicidal is an understatement.

PCR: Noam is this due to hubris in Washington?

Noam: CFR's Foreign Affairs ran Mearshimer's article discussing the risk.

Noam Chomsky signs off.

Rob: Paul, tell me more about your thoughts on this. Chomsky's words are pretty sharp-- suicidal, nuclear war.

PCR-- happening because of the Wolfowitz doctrine, like the Brezinski doctrine-- that the US cannot tolerate development of power by anyone else in the world.

I think it's a hegemonic impulse that was release with the Soviet Collapse

New book by Steven Kinzner-- THE BROTHERS-- about the Dulles brothers.

Highly aggressive actions against nuclear power. It's hard to understand the recklessness of it. It's not China that's bombed eight countries in the 21st century. It's almost like the American people believe that whatever we do is okay, but whatever anyone else does is wicked and we have to destroy them.

Rob: What role do you think sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists play in the troubles and challenges of the world and humanity?

Paul: Those kinds of people dominate governments-- less in Russia and China, because they came out of a period of failure. I think the worst psychopaths are in Washington. Success of AMerican propaganda made the rest of the world fearful of Russia and China--

Rob: narcissists label anyone as the bad guys

Paul-- exactly-- any critic" is demonized-- that's why IRan is". because they refuse to be vassals.

Europeans don't even know how to have an independent foreign policy"

I notice that in the bombing of Isis, NATO is not participating. We have Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, " not NATO

It could be that we could break up our own empire--

Rob: That empire includes Germany, FRance, Italy, Japan

Paul: Mainly western Europe"

Criticisms of Washington is increasingly that it acts illegally-- not just on foreign issues"

The white hat appearance of the United States which we achieved with the cold war" plus the entirety of the 21st century, Washington has been bombing other countries, always on the basis of a lie. " all these things undermine the image of so-called soft power in the United states. ". The west is wearing out its welcome as some kind of place where the world's decisions are made.

The west is in the hands of psychopaths and the puppets of psychopaths-- I remain convinced that the United States economy is a house of cards?

Rob: What do you mean "house of Cards?

Paul: Noting in it is substantial-- rigged dollar, stock market rigged, major purchases of stocks in recent y ears is because companies are doing buybacks of their own shares.

Real income is below levels in the late 1960s and early seventies.

There's tremendous debt, tremendous money creation,

There are no good jobs-- there are part time, low pay domestic service jobs. We have massive trade deficits"

Long after Rome had collapsed, the various kingdoms, when they issued coinage still had the head of Caesar, because that's what the people were used to. That shows how long tradition carried what was no longer present.

Rob: It seems to me that you think the way that things are going to change are things are going to collapse.

Paul: Bad Troubles.

Rob: elites".

Paul: The political elites have made such problems that things will not hold together" The reason we made changes in the 1930's was the elites were discredited.

Glass Steigel was given up under Clinton.

When the elites are perceived to have failed-- that's when there will be changes.

It's easier now for them to create false stories that are illusions and not the real reality. That can make that kind of change harder to do.

Paul: the whole purpose of quantitative easing was to save five banks. This has been the only focus of American economic policy since 2008 -- saving four or five megabucks-- and these banks former CEOs have been the Treasury secretaries, have run the regulatory agencies-- this is why there are no prosecutions-- banks people are the top officials.

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