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Paul JayWell, that's my question. Why is the West such a fan of Navalny?
Aleksandr BuzgalinBecause, not Navalny himself, but neoliberal policy of open gates for Western capital will be profitable. Plus, Russia will not be competitor in the geopolitical games. Now, Russia is trying to play - not Russia - Russian government is trying to play role of counterforce in big politics, in world politics. Of course, Russia is not as strong as the United States or China, but still in Syria and some other places, Russian government are trying to create some alternatives to NATO, to U.S. activity. And they don't like this. But nature is the same.
And you're absolutely right that modern government in Russia state, Russian state, Russian officials are representatives of big capital like in the United States, like in nearly in all countries of the world. There is small difference. In our country, the force of army is a force of military-industrial complex, the force of secret services, we have a lot of them, is much bigger than, in maybe, in Europe. I'm not speaking about United States.
It's big question for me who is the real owner: big capital or bureaucrats and secret service in the United States - who is stronger. In Russia maybe state bureaucrats are a little bit more stronger than capital, but they are representative of the capital. They could put to the prison one or another representative of big capital, but they will never attack interests of big capital. They will never introduce big restrictions for big capital in favor of people.
And, about people who came to the streets, were a different people, were a different goals. Some came just because they are, let's say, real supporters of formal bourgeois slogans, freedom of speech, and so on; this is really important slogans. But many people came because life in Russia is terrible. They have stagnation more than 10 years. They have a lot of people who are in poverty. Twenty million have $150 per month and less. And prices are more or less like in New York in many cities.
For young generation, there is another motivation. They don't have social lifts, they don't have social mobility. And they have artificial, I want to say artificial, artificial hopes that if liberals will come to power, they have a lot of chances to be rich tomorrow because they are so smart, they're so talented. And, by the way, they're educated on the basis of neoliberal economics, neoliberal political ideas. That is, I don't know, I can say even stupid.
Paul JayBy that you mean free market against public ownership?
Aleksandr BuzgalinYes, additional propaganda. It's one of the paradoxes of modern Russia. We have so called patriotic ideology, and we have textbooks written by U.S. liberal politicians and economists, even more right than in the United States, not Keynesian, but, I don't know, monetarists, still. And, this is one of the reasons. But majority of people who came to the streets, they just want to be subject to the history. They want to be not nobody. They want to be person, man, human being, who can act, who can decide something, who can control these bureaucrats, these oligarchs.
This is a real explosive of the energy which is oppressed by state, by capital, by life, everyday life.
Paul JayThe demonization of Putin as this extreme autocratic dictator, that Western perception, how do you balance that, which seems exaggerated? On the other hand, there's very legitimate reasons for the Russian people not to like Putin's government.
Aleksandr BuzgalinIn Russia, we have much more complex situation. A lot of contradictions. A few years ago, Putin's team, I do not speak about person; he is just symbol. He is not real master of Russian life. Himself, he cannot do anything which will not be supported by top officials and big capital. He doesn't have big power, by the way, in reality. He is symbol of bureaucratic structure and huge power of big capital.
But, sometimes, by the way, state corporations - they're semi-state, semiprivate - and his power now is, I don't know, caricature on the situation in Western European countries, in the United States, and so on. He is not different in the real content of his power. It's demonization, of course. And, as far as population is concerned, we have strange contradiction. If you ask, do you like Putin personally, I think 50% will say maybe yes, yes, not bad, something like that, not against. And this is not only official opinion polls. This is opinion of people. There are different reasons. One of the reasons is his independent foreign policy. Russia was, when it tried to be semi-colony of the United States, you have a terrible form of externalization: attack on Russian culture, Russian national spirit, the pride of Russian people. And it was very negative. And it created opposite reaction.
And when government led by Putin made some steps in foreign policy, independent steps, and showed that we are not slaves of the NATO, we can act independently, it was big support from below to this policy. Now it is not the case. People are tired. And finally they want to have changes in economy and social life and culture, and we don't have anything. And, that's why if you ask, do you support modern economic policy? Absolute majority will say no.
Do you support social policy? No. Do you support measures of state and education? No. And so on and so forth. So, it's very strange paradox. Went to senility. So, so. But real actions of state only negative estimations, or mainly negative estimation.
Paul JayWhy did Putin and the Russian state get into direct confrontation with the U.S., particularly in Syria? The Chinese have been very smart about not going into direct confrontation with the U.S. Why did Putin do it?
Aleksandr BuzgalinIt's better to ask Putin, of course, not me. There are different reasons. One of the reasons I already mentioned. In Russia, we have legacy of Soviet Union. And, by the way, now we have a lot of memory about Soviet Union and not bad things which we really had in past, including our culture. We have a lot of Soviet movies. We have big memory about victory in World War II.
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