You are, I'm certain, correct. We're in a transition and I think largely the transition is caused by the internet. The difficulty with that is the internet comes with a built in poison pill -- anyone who wants to know who you are, what you prefer, who you talk to, what you talk about....there isn't a computer in the country that isn't constantly spied upon by little cookies who gather data -- eventually the data is sold and countersold, and it ends up in repositories. I would say that it's fair to say that for most people -- not all -- for most people the people in charge of your data bank know more about you than you know about yourself, can predict what you're going to do, what your hot buttons are and what your cold buttons are, and they are in command of information that allows a form of mind colonization that never existed before, except in theory, in human history. So, you're going to have to deal with that, but at some point this current system is so unstable that even having all these advantages in mind control, I still think it will come down. About 20 years ago exactly, I sat in front of the American representative to the UN, a tough broad named Jeane Kirkpatrick, do you remember her?
Rob: Yes.
JTG: I was in a private room in Washington, D.C., and I was there as a conservative party chairman for the upper west side of Manhattan -- it probably turns out two conservative votes per year. And Ms. Kirkpatrick was addressing us just as George Bush addressed us...a little later. She said 'the Russian government has such extensive dossiers on every one of its citizens and the citizens of Poland, etcetera, that you will not see cracks in this fa????ade for another hundred years, so you may as well get used to it.' I don't think it was a year later when the first cracks appeared, and inside of 18 months some lunatic drunk had surrounded the Kremlin with tanks and said if the people didn't come out he was going to blow it up, you know, Yeltsin. And so then the wall was torn down, so this particular form of efficient social control is, I believe thoroughly from being a student of human history, a complete and total illusion. The universal yearning to be your own person, to be at liberty does not depend on training -- training helps; it doesn't even depend on the circumstances around you. What does it mean, Rob, that no government in human history, regardless of its tight control of its citizenry, wasn't upset that they do not perpetuate themselves? What happens is they get...I mean some last a few hundred years, like Great Britain or Ancient Rome -- they always carry with it the seeds of their own destruction, because what is the point of controlling a population other than to exploit it? And at some point, as the great, great German philosopher George Hagel said, 'at some point, this exploitation leads to the rise of a revolutionary consciousness and it may try openly and get slaughtered at first, but gradually by watching the enemy he figures out how to destroy the enemy -- by destroying the sons and daughters of the enemy, and then taking over.' Of course Hagel said as soon as it takes over it does exactly the same thing -- it exploits the mob. If Americans still were allowed to read The Federalist Papers, you know the debates that led to the Constitution, The Bill of Rights....they would discover the most sophisticated band of nation builders the world has ever seen and is ever likely to see, who talked exactly about these things. And they said that even though it looks like we have, what for human beings is the perfect government, but Jefferson said if we don't have a bloody revolution every 20 years I'm afraid you will not be able to keep what we've given you because we're all subject to this common human nature -- the good people as well as the bad people. Give the good people power, and as Lord Acton said, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." We've watched the corruption, I believe, of an American presidency inside of two years after it brought the first rays of hope I think that I've known for 20 years or 30...for a long, long time. Now let's not believe we're going to end up, I think, with the same sons of bitches back in the driver's seat -- you know the Goldman Sachs crowd -- because of the huge disappointment. Now I hope I'm wrong there, but I suspect I'm right...and if my own vote means anything, I am right.
Rob: Well you know John, we're going to probably have to wrap this up because we've gone almost half an hour, and I'm going to have to have you back....
JTG: Are you going to swear to me that I will get a copy of this for my granddaughter? Because I've been lot more candid with you than I usually am.
Rob: Alright, we'll get you your copy of this somehow.
JTG: CD?
Rob: I will...we'll talk about it once we get off the phone, okay? We'll figure it out.
JTG: Okay.
Rob: Now, I just want to ask...now you were giving us the list of the different ways that the manager class education is different. You got up to eleven. How many different numbers do you have in your list?
JTG: Oh one more. And you have...
Rob: One more?
JTG: Yeah, It's a dozen.
Rob: What's the twelfth?
JTG: The last one is that you're taught theories of access to anywhere on earth. You want to speak directly to the President of the United States and you're a slum kid -- in this system you're shown what will give you the largest percentage...possibility of doing that...how do you actually get into a job for Goldman Sachs? How do you get access to this? You want to recruit the Archbishop of Canterbury for a project -- you don't even know who he is -- how will you quickly find out how...what the steps that'll be necessary -- the intermediary steps? That's a key part of elite curriculum training.
Rob: Okay, good. Now we've got to kind of wrap this up now. I just want to say your website is johntaylorgatto.com, so people can get to it. Did you write about these 12 different elements of education anywhere? Is it in any book of yours?
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