P.L.: Yes, *chuckles*, it is. If you have a critical node, do people try and cut off lines of communication to that node? Well I'm not aware of it but you're absolutely right, it would be an effective strategy. It would be interesting to know if that's been tried.
R.K.: I want to get back, you said that the internet can be used to impose order in a Top Down manner as a surveillance tool. What do you mean, impose order?
P.L.: Well in terms of imposing order the key thing is getting the intelligence off of individuals and that tells you a lot about what people are up to and that tells you who you can or perhaps who you should crackdown on, and I think that just knowing, just having the meta data can help with that, too.
So once you identify individuals that are communicating in this way you can neutralize those people, however that basically eliminates your opposition and allows you to move forward with your plans. I think fracking is a great example of this where they targeted groups that were opposed to fracking and then they identify the individuals in those groups, classify them in terms of certain of personality types then figure out who could simply be bought off, who could be persuaded to join some sort of oecumenical committee or whatever to investigate this further, hence neutralizing them.
Who has to be neutralized through legal means by ginning up something about how they're a law breaker or something like that and so the way you impose order involves first of all getting information, identifying the structure of your opposition organizations and then neutralizing, taking that information and using that to neutralize the opposition organizations. I mean, this is not fantasy, we've been getting information through a number of hacks, in which a number of private intelligence corporations like H. B. Garry and Stratfor have actually used military psyops strategies specifically targeting groups like Chamber Watch for example, and Chamber Watch is organization that monitors the Chamber of Commerce and they use just basic straightforward psychological operations, military strategies against these protest organizations.
That's how you impose order given the information you collect.
R.K.: Wow. So in a sense a lot of the order that you're talking about is disrupting emerging threats and controlling is to maintain the existing system, or order.
P.L.: Yeah, that's right. This is not a fascist country where you go around and the military goes and shuts you down in a kind of ham-fisted way, what you do is find clever ways to undermine or neutralize the opposition organizations. You do a lot of work a public relations firm might do, but always the idea is you impose order by finding ways to dissolve or neutralize your opposition.
R.K.: And that is taking on a whole new meaning. I've thought a couple of times of Don Siegelman, Don Siegelman was a governor of Alabama, he was running for the election and now he's in a federal prison because of some trumped up charges that were created. He's a screaming example of how the system can be abused but I imagine that there are thousands of ways that the information can be taken and used to intimidate or disrupt or to, in so many ways, to change the balance.
P.L.: Yes I think that's right. I mean there's a reason that since the 1970's protest groups have not been able to successfully organize and what they haven't realized is that there are people actively engaged in undermining them and it's not, there's nothing even secretive about this.
Justice Potter, well the person who would become Justice Potter wrote or gave a speech to the Chamber of Commerce in the 1970's basically arguing that the Chamber of Commerce and the business community needs to start fighting back against various activist groups whether it be environmentalism or whatever the case might be and they needed to basically engage in public relations warfare and then a number of these public relations firms began hiring up people with military experience.
One of the first ones was an organization called Pagan International which then later evolved to Stratfor and they were from the very beginning importing strategies for what we would now call irregular warfare, which is using psychological operations to bend a target population to your will. So if you just understand irregular warfare in this way, you don't really need to neutralize your enemy with kinetic means, meaning bullets, if you can do it by using psychological operations to undermine your opposition and bend the general population to your will.
So what we're seeing is a kind of psychological warfare being conducted against the American people frankly, by the business community, often with the help of our own government, and they're working to impose a false reality on us. To hide certain truths from us and to present other "truths" to us.
Organizations that speak out and resist the dominant narrative are going to be targets of these private intelligence firms and some cases the government and they are going to be undermined and the government has been very very successful and the private intel companies have been very very successful in undermining protest groups to this point.
R.K.: Now you've mentioned Stratfor a couple times now. Now recently there was a whistleblower or somebody who did a data-dump about Stratfor. I can't think of his name off the top of my head.
P.L.: The person who did the hack was a kid named Jeremy Hammond.
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