F.W.: You mean the role of technology in this?
R.K.: Yes.
F.W.: I don't know. I do feel that social media, for example, they exploit our general tendency to be social and so it's not that social media invents anything new. What they do is they capitalize on our tendency to be interested in each other and to want to stay in touch with certain people. So I'm not sure that the technology... the technology makes certain contacts possible, but they don't necessarily substantially add to it. So I'm not sure that technology is going to change the world in that regard except to make the world smaller. That's for sure, that you can stay in touch with people who are far away.
R.K.: Is there any research on using any of these kinds of technologies with primates?
F.W.: No. People have tried that. People have given iPads to orangutans and stuff like that, but they don't do much with it. They use them as a toy basically.
R.K.: You mention a lot, Hieronymous Bosch, because you grew up in the town of Bosch and you imagine his painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights," and you say in your New York Times editorial, "Bosch seems to have depicted humanity in its natural state, while reserving his moralistic outlook for the right-hand panel of the triptych in which he punishes -- not the frolickers from the middle panel -- but monks, nuns, gluttons, gamblers, warriors, and drunkards-- Where do you go with that? What are you thinking he is saying there and how does it tie in with your work with primates?
F.W.: Well, the nice thing about the triptych by Bosch, which is called "The Garden of Earthly Delights," is that it seems to depict humanity before "The Fall." So the general view...because the middle panel has like a thousand human figures who are engaged in all sorts of erotic acts and eating, hanging around and stuff like that, and the...
R.K.: Acting like Bonobos.
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