R: psych-psychopath.
H1: Well, eh - eh
R: in the world of mammals, they, they're kind, they're fair, they have morals and even the animals that kill, they kill to eat. They don't kill for the sake of killing, like humans do. We have so much to learn from the part of nature that we've ignored. I loved the ideas that Daniel Quinn talked about--I know you interviewed him a while back. So did I-- and his book, Ishmael, I think we have a lot to learn and a lot to remember that we've forgotten and I think that what's exciting about it is that this whole Bottom Up revolution is making people billions of dollars and making them very successful but it, at the same time, I - I've always liked the, the idea of morphogenic fields that Rupert Sheldrake has put out there, that if you put out an idea, it gets replicated. The more you put it out the more it's replicated. So I'm very hopeful that this is gonna lead to big, big changes. that will make the world a better kinder, fairer, more just place for everyone, not just for the handful of billionaires and the one hundred fifty thousand people in America who are multimillionaires. I have a big problem with that. I've written a number of articles, I'm not the only one, Tom Hartmann has written about it, too. I really believe we have to get rid of billionaires. We have to make it so it's no longer legal to be a billionaire. It's an abnormality, it's an abomination in my mind. There are a couple of decent people who are billionaires but there are way too many who are, the - in that other class: the narcissists and the psychopaths and the sociopaths.
H2: I was reading somebody who was saying that it's the billionaires that do have a conscience that are going to save us and I really, totally disagree with that. You know, if, if we're going to be saved as a species it's because we're going to save ourselves.
R: Right.
H2: It's not because somebody's going to finance or engineer some sort of big checking
H1: And you know I was also thinking, in backing up Rob on what he was saying is that the movement is also extremely, extremely diverse. I mean, in addition to some of the things that Rob, illustrated/ You have the various forms of of exchange for example, time banking, of course Ellen Brown and the public banking but even beyond that, there's other economies that are coming in, in to play and also with with foods there's the Permaculture Movement. There are the transition towns and so on that are very localized, ways of changing how people interact with each other and interact with nature and, and so on. And so I, I think and you know I think that diversity is a wonderful thing because if there's, if you have a diverse movement, you know they're not going to be able to zero in on one particular sect and knock them out and then, you know make them go away or whatever, but with all these diverse youth movements I think, you know that's exactly what going to create an evolution in our culture, in my humble opinion.
R: Well I really believe that the needed - we need literally to decide that we're going to fight against big, B I G.
H1: mhhmm
R: And it needs to be a battle.. We have to decide that big is dangerous. Big is destructive, big leads to corruption, and injustice, and we have to start developing a science of small.
H1: mhmm
R: I think that what we need to have is the government literally investing in people who are working on ways to keep businesses from getting big, where it's still possible to develop economies of scale like mass production without business getting too big and
H2: mhmm
R: that involves a lot of cooperation and interdependence and trust because what we have now is a business, if it likes a concept, it buys the smaller company and then it owns it and it controls it. We need to go away from more control of, of copyrights and patents. An artist and a writer should have some protection. Inventors should have some protection, but what we're seeing now is these troll companies that are buying up thousands of companies and instead of developing products they're just making it hard for companies. We need to figure out how to develop new technologies while staying small and we have to figure out some technologies we just don't need anymore, too because we've got to be more sustainable.
H2: And yet the new media and you know, something as big as the internet and some new technologies are facilitating this Bottom Up change. This -
R: Yeah it, it, it, it's a hard thing, you know? It, it, it could very well be that the ultimate result of the Bottom Up Revolution is that the technology fades away or it really radically changes. That's a possibility. but you know it, it, it's partly a value system. I really believe that it's worth looking at, thinking about Bottom Up as a value and part of the value system would include localization and sustainability, and getting rid of production for the sake of production and production aimed at driving consumption
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