| Thanks to OEN volunteer editor Don Caldarazzo for help editing the transcript. |
Though the pic is face to face, we did the interview by phone a few days later.
Rob Kall: And welcome to the Rob
Kall Bottom Up Radio Show.
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This portion
of my show, the guest is Cindy Sheehan.
Cindy is
somebody I respect very highly. She's
been an activist, she's a Gold Star Mom, who became worldwide famous when she
started protesting in front of George Bush's Crawford Texas ranch. He never did speak to her!
Now, she is a
candidate for Vice President. And she'll
talk a little bit about that.
She has a new
book out, "Revolution, a Love Story'.
Welcome to the
show!
Cindy Sheehan:
Hi Rob. Thank you .
Rob Kall: So it's great to see you, and to listen
to you speak on Sunday down in "Philly' .
Cindy Sheehan:
Right. Saturday.
Rob Kall: And I realize"
Cindy Sheehan:
It was Saturday, but
that doesn't really matter.
Rob Kall: It was Saturday, wasn't it? Oops! [laughing with Cindy]
So, and it was
a really good talk and as far as I was concerned you hit a home run. You've got
all the issues covered in such a good, solid way. Wow!
Cindy Sheehan: Thank
you.
Rob Kall: [aside: A weird echo happening on my
end. Are you getting it on your end?
Cindy reply:
No I'm not getting it all on this end. I
know that happens sometimes though when I'm recording my show.]
Okay so, I'm
going to let you" what I'm going to do, is I'm going to basically get you
started and then I'll silence my end, so that we don't get any weird sounds
again.
Let's talk about
some topics. Aside: I think it's
going to be okay [in reference to echo noise above]
Let's
see. Let's start talking about the
election: and what's your take on this election?
Cindy Sheehan:
Okay. Well, my take on this election is that it's
just, especially with the Democrats & the Republicans, it's just another
one of those 'dog-and-pony shows,' where nothing substantive is really talked
about. If something substantial is
spoken about, in the debates or the rhetoric, it's pretty clear that the two
major candidates pretty much agree with each other on most issues. And if they disagree, their disagreements are
very minor. I think the disagreements
have been more with strategy, achieving goals, than the goal. I think the goal is the same.
And, you know
I am running the Peace and Freedom Party, as a (Peace and Freedom Party in
California) Socialist Party. We're on the ballot physically in three States and
write-in candidates, I think, in about twenty States. And, I really think that, if people care
about peace, if they care about justice, if they care about their rights, Obama
has further taken away our civil and human rights here in the United States
since he's been President. You know, if
you care about these things, I would say don't throw away your vote on Obama or
Romney. I would say vote third party or
independent. Or vote down ticket things,
or don't vote for President, I think sends a message to the upper class
politics or the politics of the one percent that we oppose them, and the only
way we can do that bs, you know, by going to the ballot box. That's not the only way we can do it [laughing]
But one of the ways we can do it is by going to the ballot box and
not legitimizing the essentially one party monopoly we have here in the United
States.
I just can't
wait until the elections are over. And I
hope we get at least a break until after
Christmas
until they start campaigning again for 2016, because it really is
tiresome. And it's just the same
propaganda that they bring, they tried out every four years. They just change the names, so" the true
organizing, the true change I think will happen outside the ballot box, and
outside the two party system, and outside our government, obviously. And I think that's that what we need to concentrate
our activism on, more.
Rob Kall: What does that look like, concentrating
on activism outside of the ballot box, I guess outside the electoral
system?
Cindy Sheehan: Well, when I
was speaking in Philadelphia I was there to promote a book I wrote called Revolution,
a Love Story. And Revolution, a
Love Story is about essentially the Bolivarian revolution that Hugo Chà �vez
of Venezuela started. And, it was around
1997 when he got out of prison, was the political organizing that started. Before, he was in prison because he tried to
militarily overthrow the government when he was in the Venezuelan army. He was an officer, and with other officers
they tried a military coup against the government that failed. And he spent three or four years in prison
refining his ideology of this grassroots revolution that included the people,
not" it was independent of Venezuela's one percent. And so, I think that we can do that here in
the United States, but I think we have to concentrate more locally to try to do
this, whether we do it by State, or we do it by region, or community, I think
we can realistically, people who
care about
peace, and care about justice and care about the environment care about education for our children and
grandchildren, and healthcare. I think
we can organize very effectively in our community, and I see it done all over
the country and all over the world, where communities have local [inaudible word: 06.52], they
have community gardens, they have cooperatives for education, and farmers'
markets and food talks, and all kinds of ways that we can
organize; we can get people who are like minded to City Councils and on School
Boards, which I think is very important.
And on Boards of Supervisors, and things like that. And, every four years here in this country we
get so distracted by Presidential politics, and I want to say that the
President is the farthest away from us and doing anything effective that helps
us than anything else. He might as well
be like "where on earth is the President is on Alpha Centuri?' or
something. That's how far away he, or
one of these days maybe she, are from what's really important to us, here on the real planet earth. And so I think that that's what Hugo Chà �vez
recognized, and that's what he did in Venezuela. And he was elected President in 1998. They rewrote the Constitution. He promised the people that if he were
elected that they would call a Constitutional Convention. It was made up of people from Venezuela, and
after it was written it was a most progressive Constitution, probably, of the
time, and since. And it was put up to a
vote of the people of Venezuela. They
ratified it, not the elite. And they are
the only ones that can change it.
So since then,
he's been using the mineral wealth of his country to improve the lives of the
people. And so they're, instead of the
income gap growing in Venezuela, its closing.
He's closed it over fifty percent since he's been President, because
he's made access to healthcare, education, housing, food, and a basic
guaranteed income, Rights not privileges, and they are rights enshrined and
protected in the Constitution of Venezuela.
So I believe we can do that. I
don't know how long it would take to do that in the Federal government, but I
believe if we start in our own communities, it can only go so far horizontally
before it has to go vertically.
Rob Kall: That's a very hopeful vision. And really the term you're talking about is
"re-localization'. Bringing things back
to the community. And that seems to be
more and more the solution that more and more problems are finding as a
solution!
Cindy Sheehan:
Well, there's a wonderful
documentary called "The Economics of Happiness' by Helena Norberg-Hodge. I've had her on my show a couple of
times.
Rob Kall: Yeah, I've had her on too. She's wonderful.
Cindy Sheehan:
Yeah. She's wonderful. And if the problem is globalization, than the
answer is localization. And it's almost
like the" who was it, Buckminster Fuller and his "Theory of Small'. You know, making things smaller instead of
bigger? That's what gotten us into
trouble, is trying to be too big. And I
think our technology has outstripped our capacity for it. So, I just think us trying to make things
smaller, and trying to make our lives more manageable, and taking power for our
lives back into our own hands... So this
is a revolution. It's not a revolution
where we take our pop-guns or broom-handles to D.C. and try to make a
difference. It's rolling our sleeves up
and making a difference in our own community.
Rob Kall: And that's something that is really
very practical and finite and doable for for pretty much anybody.
Cindy Sheehan:
Well"
Rob Kall: Have you done it in your community?
Cindy Sheehan:
We have instituted these
small things like a co-op pre school, and I'm trying to stay... more in
California. I would like to see this
vision happen in California. So I've been thinking of running for Governor of
California in 2014 to talk about these things for the people of my State. And California has a little more population
than Venezuela, but I think that it's a good model for what was going on in
Venezuela before Hugo Chà �vez became President, because for successive
administrations have given more and more power to the rich and the
corporations, and the Prison-Industrial Complex in California, and have taken
more and more, our rights to education, our rights to a social safety net, and
the environment. Those things are being
compromised in California, and the people are really feeling the squeeze. And so, I think that to do that in
California, to get the vision out there and to get people thinking about it, I
think that's probably going to be my next step.
Rob Kall: Wow!
You're going to run for Governor of California? Whoo!
Cindy Sheehan:
I'm thinking about it
seriously.
Rob Kall: And, under what party would you run?
Cindy Sheehan:
Peace and Freedom. That's my party.
Rob Kall: Peace and Freedom.
Cindy Sheehan:
And the Peace and Freedom
Party is going to lose our ballot access in 2014, because of a proposition that
was passed in 2010. It's called
"Proposition 14', and it is a "top two primary." And so instead of staying on the ballot by
getting a certain percentage of the vote, now we have to register a certain
amount of people. So we have to double
our registration by 2014, or we're going to cease to exist as a
ballot0recognized party in California.
So that Prop 14 is essentially an anti-democratic proposition. And of course a proposition idea in
California was a good idea, but now whatever side has the most money and
PG&E [Pacific Gas and Electric Company] backing it is essentially the side
that's going to win. So that process has
been ruined by big money and politics too.
Rob Kall: Mm. Now, to move on. You've been one of the
most visible peace activists in America.
In our conversation and in your talk on Saturday, you said something
about the effect that an Obama Presidency has had on peace activism and peace
movement, and how that might change under Romney?
Cindy Sheehan:
Well"
Rob Kall: Bishop Romney, as I'm calling him
nowadays.
Cindy Sheehan:
What do you call him?
Rob Kall: I'm calling him Bishop Romney [Cindy laughing in background], because
he was a bishop for more years than he was a Governor. And"
Cindy Sheehan: Uh-huh.
[laughing]
Rob Kall: As a bishop he did things like order
women to give up their children because they were unmarried, and things like
that. And most people aren't aware of
it, so I'm working with it.
But I wanted
to get your take on this, and see if you wanted to talk about that a little
bit.
Cindy Sheehan:
Well, of course the tide
started to turn against the anti-war movement, I don't even want to say the
peace movement, because there's a peace movement in this country that has been
the counter-culture for ever. And these
people are always struggling against, whether it's against slavery or other
issues that that were harming people, the movement has been there. There's always been a movement that's been
against every war that the U.S. has proposed. So there's always been a peace
movement, and there always will be a peace movement. These are the sisters and the priests, and
unfortunately, the 'move,' today, is of the very elderly, that go out and protest nuclear missile launches and get arrested,
and spend months, if not years, in prison.
You know, they are the unsung heroes of humanity, I think. But the Anti-War movement in 2005, 2006, was"
in 2005 it really grew and burst onto the scene, when I was camped out in
Crawford Texas. And it was really large
and we had many rallies, many marches, with tens of thousands, even hundreds of
thousands, of people. And the power of
it wa used to elect Democrats for Congress in '06. Well '07 they took power, and then Nancy
Pelosi and her Congress started to approve George Bush's surge in Iraq. They started to approve war funding. They refused to hold them accountable. And so the energy of the movement waned
because, if the energy was to get Democrats in Congress, well that was
successful. But also, some major groups
started saying we can't have marches in D.C. any more, because we're going to
embarrass the Democrats. And so the
Anti-War movement started to go away
then. And then when Obama was elected
'08 and took office in '09, it became apparent for me that we didn't have
really much of an Anti-War movement, we
had an anti-Bush movement; because Obama has pretty much carried on the agenda
of the war machine just as much as Bush, if not more than Bush, ever did. I mean it was his expanding drone bombing
programs with his targeted assassination program, with Libya, Syria... And Syria, they're supporting the so called
rebels. Yemen, Somalia" I mean, just so
many things, that really, I think if it were John McCain or future President
Mitt Romney doing these things, there would be, of course ,a much bigger
outcry. And I kind of quipped at the
thing that, "If Mitt Romney is elected these things will become wrong again,"
and one of the people in the audience says, "Well, they're wrong!"
And I said
"yeah, I know. If they were wrong under Bush, they're wrong under Obama!" So I think that if Romney is
elected, and he keeps this agenda going, which we know he will, and you know
Iran, and" I didn't watch the debate because I was on the bus, but apparently
both of the candidates swore allegiance to Israel. And so, if Romney is elected
we know that these things are going to continue, but I believe that we'll have
more people out in the streets with us again protesting them. Will that be a good thing? It would be temporarily good to see an
increase in numbers and spirit of the Anti-War movement, but it just can't be
again assumed into the Democratic Party for 2014 and 2016. But it will be, but you know we can use the
energy. Instead of our energy being used, for like, Democrats, we can use the
energy to perhaps come closer to ending the wars.
Rob Kall: So basically what you're saying is, that
the Anti-War movement will be more likely to become active, and grow, and gain
strength and energy without a Democratic President?
Cindy Sheehan:
Well again I mean"
Rob Kall: Without Obama?
Cindy Sheehan:
Right. If you just look back, I think the history is
pretty clear on that. So, I'm not
predicting that Mitt Romney is going to win.
I'm just looking back on a trend, and the history, and seeing that this
is what will happen. And then if Obama
wins, I can hear the thing is like, "he doesn't have a chance to be re-elected
but we can't protest toward his policies, because we'll be afraid of losing the
White House in 2016!"
Rob Kall: And what does that mean? It means that we" I mean I'm just trying to
think of this in terms of wars, and spying without warrants, and torture, and
capturing prisoners without having to declare that they've been captured, and
all the abuses that Obama has engaged in.
Cindy Sheehan:
Indefinite detention. And prosecution of whistleblowers. You know, allegiance to Wall Street [laughing] , bailing out the corporations, the destruction of the
environment. So what it means, I think,
what it boils down to, is what I said earlier, is that I think more of our
activism needs to be on the ground, and in our communities where we live,
because that's where we're going to be able to change things.
Rob Kall: That's a good bit of advice. And I'll tell you: if Cindy Sheehan comes
back here, she's a great presenter, speaker.
If you're listening to this on the podcast, wherever you are, get Cindy
and bring her to your neck of the woods.
She is just a dynamite speaker with the Progressive message that we
really need to hear.
Cindy Sheehan: Thanks Rob.
Rob Kall: This is Rob Kall Bottom-Up Radio Show,
sponsored by OpEdNews.com .
I've been on with Cindy Sheehan.
Cindy, thank you so much.
Cindy Sheehan: Thank you, and my website is cindysheehansoapbox.com
Rob Kall: Cindy-Sheehan-Soapbox.com. Check it
out. And the book is Revolution, a
Love Story.
Cindy Sheehan: Yes.
Rob Kall: Good night!
Cindy Sheehan: Good night.
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