JB: Good point. So, what's new with the recount efforts? From the outside, it appears as if the states are doing their darnedest to make this impossible, and failing that, as difficult and costly as possible. How're they doing?
BK: I'm not part of the recount effort and can only hope things are going efficiently, smoothly and accurately. Counting votes by hand, examining "spoiled" votes via human eye, is a slow, time-consuming process, confounding the instant result expectations we've grown accustomed to in this high-tech era. It's amazing that the states are able to put up so many bureaucratic roadblocks in the way of the recount. Apparently Stein has missed the filing deadline in Pennsylvania and has been unable to force Wisconsin to conduct its recount entirely by hand. At least the publicity is bringing these roadblocks to national attention.
JB: How'd we get ourselves into this mess? Has there ever been (justified) voter confidence in the integrity of our elections? Is this reaction mostly because people don't like or fear Trump? What if there had been a popular candidate? Would there still have been a desire to re-examine the votes?
BK: I think it's always been a struggle: a multi-headed struggle. Certainly big city bosses have been notorious in past eras for stealing elections by various means. When I started working as a journalist in Chicago back in the '70s, the old (Richard J.) Daley machine was still in control in most city wards. There was a large citizens' movement that was then emerging that helped create at least a certain amount of election integrity. But I think there's no doubt that power in this country is only partially determined by public will. The system has always been gamed to varying degrees. Beyond the struggle for basic fairness and accuracy, there has also been, as we all know, an ongoing struggle over who has the right to vote at all. How fair can an election be if the electorate consists entirely of white male property owners? Obviously this is a never-ending struggle, since the seduction of power is always enormous. But I do think it's important to acknowledge that most election participants, be they voters or officer seekers or election judges, are small-d democrats who act with the utmost integrity.
JB: That may be true but so much damage can be done by those "bad apples." And where does that leave us? Maybe we've sen this every four years, but the implications of this election are enormous and far-reaching.
BK: I think it leaves us in a state of chaos and opportunity. One of my biggest social criticisms is that we've degenerated into a spectator culture. Politics, even war, have devolved into an entertainment spectacle. The "news" is something out there beyond us, controlled by the corporatocracy or whatever. A military-industrial consensus has controlled national and international policy pretty much my entire lifetime. Worse than voter suppression and election fraud is sheer election irrelevance. This year we almost had a candidate -- Bernie Sanders -- who seriously challenged the status quo. For various reasons he didn't quite succeed. Trump, on the other side, did succeed, partially due to the same voter yearning for real change that Sanders evoked. Perhaps the scariest quote I can think of are these words of Emma Goldman: "If elections could change anything, they'd be illegal." Voting is only the beginning of what we need to do to create the future we believe in. Right now we're watching the old system fall apart, or so it seems. Now is the time to start having a say in what will replace it.
JB: Democracy is definitely not a spectator sport. And it's not for sissies. I'd say the same is true, especially now, for intrepid, independent journalists. We've already gotten a taste of what's ahead with Trump attacking and threatening anyone in the press who criticizes him. Does it make you a bit fearful or wanting to give up the mantle of democracy's watchdog? It's beyond challenging.
BK: Anything but! What a privilege to be a watchdog. What a responsibility. I'll keep doing this as long as I can.
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