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Paul JayI mean, in some ways, the Democrats' bullshit created this situation, because, one, the Russia stuff. I've been saying from the very beginning and I didn't get into the weeds of it as some journalists did because I kept saying, I don't care if it's all true. I'm not sure if I have already said this in this interview or not. But if I have, I'm going to say it again. If everything the Russians are accused of they actually did, I don't care, because what the American oligarchy does to undermine democracy every day in so many ways, down to what the police forces do in the cities to poor blacks and working-class blacks, it [i.e., Russian interference] pales in comparison to what the American oligarchy does to destroy American democracy. From violating poor and working-class blacks' constitutional rights and Latino every single day to unlimited funding of parties by corporations and voter suppression, and so on, and so on.
Whatever Russia may or may not have done, it's practically irrelevant. What's more important and what was so dangerous is that the Democratic Party tried to invoke the ghosts and demons of the Cold War to fight their battle. So, they invoke Russophobia. Like, this business of impeaching him over something that happens in the Ukraine and some conversations that happen. Like, who cares? The only reason they think any of this matters the links [to Russia], the Mueller investigation, and all the rest the only reason anybody might care is because of this Cold War fanaticism they're trying to link to, to bring against Trump. It didn't work. And a lot of the journalists, including Glenn and others, who attacked this and showed it didn't bear up factually, I think that was good work. And I was for publishing that kind of stuff.
But I also thought it didn't get at the real nub of it which is what I just said. The real threat to democracy came from the American elites. The danger is these rising tensions with a nuclear power. Obama once called Russia a mid-level regional power. Well, that's what they are. And it's no existential threat. The idea of Russia invading Western Europe is absurd.
So, the critique of that, of the Democratic Party, fed this whole stream of journalism that became so invested in attacking the Democratic Party that they lost sight of Trump. And it's partly something Glenn said on the same show I referred to earlier: Rising. What's the point of him writing against Trump when CNN and MSNBC are doing it every day, anyway? I mean, what has he got to add to that conversation?
Well, what there is to add to that conversation is the systemic analysis.
Abby MartinOf course.
Paul JayWhat are the forces that are driving this Trump fascism? And he didn't do that. He and others just keep harping on about the Democratic Party without getting to that. The real issue is who owns stuff and the political power that comes from that concentration of ownership. And that, of course, applies to both parties.
Abby MartinWell, that's exactly right. We need that systemic analysis that's not going to be given to us by the corporate media. I mean, the corporate media has a very superficial analysis. They harp on Trump for very ridiculous reasons sometimes and get caught up in claiming that he's being engineered by the Putin regime, which is absolutely laughable. So, yeah, it's a complete distraction. And we need people who are engaged in that systemic analysis to be reporting on what Trump is doing, which is exactly why I have been focusing on what Trump's militarism has been.
It's very ridiculous to actually claim that Trump is fighting the Deep State. And it just kind of a narrative that feeds into legitimizing Trump's paranoia and base that claims that he's an outsider, that he's this political anti-establishment outsider, when in reality, plenty of neocons from the PNAC think tank, actually
Paul JayProject for New American Century.
Abby MartinI mean, look at Frank Gaffney. It's kind of like these outsider neocon outliers that are just batshit crazy that have hitched their wagons to Trump. Plenty of other former intelligence officials who are more Islamophobic, let's say, have hitched their wagons to Trump. So, yeah, it's not as black and white as saying, "The intelligence community supports Biden. Therefore, Biden is more of a puppet for the CIA." No, it's just different wings and different factions of the intelligence apparatus for different reasons.
I just find the lack of nuance to be problematic. And I would like people to approach the subject with a lot more perspective and a lot deeper analysis in terms of who are these figures and how they represent, as you say, the inner workings of finance capital, and why do these [different] sectors support [each of] them, and what does that really mean?
Paul JayI agree. So, we're going to do a part two because we were going to make foreign policy the topic but because of everything going on, we had other things to talk about.
So please join us for part two of my interview with Abby Martin on theAnalysis.news podcast. And again, don't forget the donate button. That's at the top of the webpage.
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