Broadcast 12/22/2010 at 12:07 PM EST (114 Listens, 49 Downloads, 2079 Itunes)
The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast
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Rob's notes from the interview (transcript forthcoming)
Cheryl asked about his reflections as he was arrested on Dec 16, escorted by police in handcuffs, making the peace sign.
Dan Ellsberg, being arrested making peace sign. (photo by Cheryl Biren). Â See more of her photos on Flickr
On Assange and Wikileaks
Many pages of the Pentagon papers were not relevant. (in response to criticism of Assange that not all the released documents are significant.)
Wars were similar. Motives in the release were similar. Wanted to shorten the wars.
In case of Wikileaks, Obama has a need to suppress Sikileaks-- which reveal a lot of criminality-- failure to investigate torture... Â Â instead order was repeatedly to not investigate further. Everyone obeyed, noone exposed it. That deserves, requires investigation by the Obama administration.
Pentagon papers did not expose high level criminality like Wikileaks.
The impression has been given to the public that there really has not been anything of substance that has been released.
If people follow the bulk of the revelations that have come out, if you look at Der Speigel or the Guardian, there are a lot of major and very timely revelations have been made.Â
Many pages of the Pentagon papers were not relevant. (in response to criticism of Assange that not all the released documents are significant.)
Wars were similar. Motives in the release were similar. Wanted to shorten the wars.
In case of Wikileaks, Obama has a need to suppress Sikileaks-- which reveal a lot of criminality-- failure to investigate torture... Â Â instead order was repeatedly to not investigate further. Everyone obeyed, noone exposed it. That deserves, requires investigation by the Obama administration.
Pentagon papers did not expose high level criminality like Wikileaks.
The impression has been given to the public that there really has not been anything of substance that has been released.
If people follow the bulk of the revelations that have come out, if you look at Der Speigel or the Guardian, there are a lot of major and very timely revelations have been made.Â
Â
Glenn Greenwald points out planning of ground operations from Afghanistan into Pakistan at the risk of destabilizing the country enormously.
Glenn Greenwald points out planning of ground operations from Afghanistan into Pakistan at the risk of destabilizing the country enormously.
Investigating whistleblowers who Bush admin did not indict.
Obama admin. has brought more indictments (against whistleblowers) already than all presidents combined.
Has used the State Secrets privilege more promiscuously than Bush.
These are such egregious violation of fundamental human rights and of the rule of law and he's using the States Secrets privilege in an egregious way.
Differences in release of Wikileaks and release of Pentagon papers.
Ellsberg said: I was portrayed as a traitor by the president and the vice president, that I got that about as much as Assange and did get more credit for the information coming out. It was top secret information whereas the information coming out now is SECRET.
President brought up a dozen Cubans up from Miami to "incapacitate me." There was a hit squad-- a covert "death squad" an assault squad in any case.
To call someone a terrorist is virtually to strip them of American citizenship and rights.. to make them like an animal...
We both see secrecy as very problematic at best... in a democracy.
I do think that there should be secrets and Assange confirmed to me that he agreed....
Manning told Adrian Lamo who informed on him that he was willing to risk his life or life in prison.
Everyone recognizes it as a cliche that there is too much secrecy... Â
the press focuses on information that is of no interest that's secret-- this wasteful part where no interest is served by keeping it secret.
Interests in not being accountable, for criminality, for lies, for reckless policies.... it is a fraction that is kept secret for very strong reason-- interests of officials who don't want to lose their jobs, be prosecuted, lose an election... Â it's the kind of thing that's keeping us in Afghanistan right now.
When an insider says that, Â (that occupation aids the Taliban) that will be secret, because it undermines the policy...
Due to reckless, foolish, unjustified decisions by many people, but starting at the top with George Bush and Barack Obama and those decisions depended upon secrecy that hid dissent. If there had been less secrecy there would have been fewer American deaths.
Veterans Want YOU for Civil Resistance! by Cheryl Biren. Veterans arrested at the White House Thursday determined to mobilize more civil resistance to the wars.
We need to do all the things that worked to help end the Viet Nam War.
I would like to see people emulating Bradley Manning and Wikileaks.
Wikileaks does not have the Pentagon papers of Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan and Iran, including the dissenting opinions.
Bradley Manning's demonization and imprisonment is not an encouragement, and I hope we'll hear more from Manning.
I don't think anything is going to stop the unjustifified homicide and money we are spending...
Ellsberg.net.
Obama admin. has brought more indictments (against whistleblowers) already than all presidents combined.
Has used the State Secrets privilege more promiscuously than Bush.
These are such egregious violation of fundamental human rights and of the rule of law and he's using the States Secrets privilege in an egregious way.
Differences in release of Wikileaks and release of Pentagon papers.
Ellsberg said: I was portrayed as a traitor by the president and the vice president, that I got that about as much as Assange and did get more credit for the information coming out. It was top secret information whereas the information coming out now is SECRET.
President brought up a dozen Cubans up from Miami to "incapacitate me." There was a hit squad-- a covert "death squad" an assault squad in any case.
To call someone a terrorist is virtually to strip them of American citizenship and rights.. to make them like an animal...
We both see secrecy as very problematic at best... in a democracy.
I do think that there should be secrets and Assange confirmed to me that he agreed....
Manning told Adrian Lamo who informed on him that he was willing to risk his life or life in prison.
Everyone recognizes it as a cliche that there is too much secrecy... Â
the press focuses on information that is of no interest that's secret-- this wasteful part where no interest is served by keeping it secret.
Interests in not being accountable, for criminality, for lies, for reckless policies.... it is a fraction that is kept secret for very strong reason-- interests of officials who don't want to lose their jobs, be prosecuted, lose an election... Â it's the kind of thing that's keeping us in Afghanistan right now.
When an insider says that, Â (that occupation aids the Taliban) that will be secret, because it undermines the policy...
Due to reckless, foolish, unjustified decisions by many people, but starting at the top with George Bush and Barack Obama and those decisions depended upon secrecy that hid dissent. If there had been less secrecy there would have been fewer American deaths.
Veterans Want YOU for Civil Resistance! by Cheryl Biren. Veterans arrested at the White House Thursday determined to mobilize more civil resistance to the wars.
We need to do all the things that worked to help end the Viet Nam War.
I would like to see people emulating Bradley Manning and Wikileaks.
Wikileaks does not have the Pentagon papers of Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan and Iran, including the dissenting opinions.
Bradley Manning's demonization and imprisonment is not an encouragement, and I hope we'll hear more from Manning.
I don't think anything is going to stop the unjustifified homicide and money we are spending...
Ellsberg.net.
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