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Paul Jay
So I guess he steals it by all kinds of legal cases, challenging the results of the vote, of the mail-in vote, getting Republican governors and secretaries of state not to certify the elections.
Allan Lichtman
Exactly. Just like we saw in Florida. Yeah. And in Florida they actually threatened to have the state legislature appoint a set of Trump electors, you may see that again. Basically he said, you know, I'm going to put my folks on the Supreme Court, I'm gonna pack the Supreme Court, and I want the Supreme Court, not the voters, to decide this election. This isn't a secret.
Paul Jay
Yeah, and his proxies are talking very openly about it on television. There's no doubt about it.
Allan Lichtman
And he has all the power of the presidency. And in virtually every one of the swing states, the legislature is controlled by Republicans, and in a number of them, like Florida, it's the governor and the legislature, Ohio, it's the governor and the legislature. You know, I have a lot of faith in Governor DeWine. I have no faith in Governor DeSantis that he would do the right thing.
Paul Jay
So what can the Democrats do about it? What can the people do about it? And that's not necessarily the same question.
Allan Lichtman
Well, what the people can do about it is make this a blue wave election like 2018. Make sure that Donald Trump is so decisively rejected that no shenanigans can change the result, that's what the people can do. And what the Democrats can do is, number one, expose this, and I don't think they've done nearly as good a job as they should in exposing and challenging this, and number two, put together the best legal team in the country to counter this.
But, you know, when someone as powerful as the president, with all these Republican enablers behind him, is determined to cheat, it's a very, very difficult to stop it.
Paul Jay
The key issue, again, is the swing states. There's very little doubt Trump is going to lose the popular vote. He lost it last time.
Allan Lichtman
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