Rob: But we do have millions of them. It's estimated anywhere from 1 to 12%.
BB: Of course we do. We've created an individualist, egotistical, self-centered society. We don't have to. We can be nurturing other values. You know, we have reaped what we create.
Rob: What do we do with them since we have them now?
BB: We help people reach toward other ways of being. And you know, we help society, you know, and ourselves, you know, all of us together because we are society, find ways to negotiate between people who are out to hurt others and those who are getting hurt. You know, there isn't a single answer in the terms like, here's what we do. But there are processes, we can get together in conflict resolution meetings. We can get together in community healing meetings. We can, you know, and my sense is that people can start to shift. You know. That if we can start shifts going, then we won't be talking about a world where there's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of egotistical people, we will talk about a world in which we will all have these various impulses including egotistical and how do we bring out the best in everyone, and how do we care for everyone.
Rob: I'm all for that. I actually organized the first meeting on positive psychology and optimal functioning back in the 90s, so I'm a real firm believer in that. But at the same time, you know the people who are pushing to make the psychiatric model stronger, they're part of the problem.
BB: Of course, they're central to the problem.
Rob: What do we do with them?
BB: We start taking away their power. They, psychiatry and its minions only have power because we allow them to have power. We have to withdraw our consent to being ruled, and that's no easy matter. But we've certainly seen it in other societies. We've certainly seen it in other situations. In essence, Gandhi and his followers withdrew their consent to being ruled by the British Empire and the British Empire couldn't continue ruling them, right? Once they withdrew their consent. We have to withdraw our consent from psychiatry. We have to make it impossible for instance for a government to get elected if it is willing to back psychiatry. We have to withdraw our consent.
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